Pups sired by CH Apple Valley Shades Of Blue, CGC x Spiritwind Ain't No Angel

Just thought I'd also share pics of my current litter. Sire is CH Apple Valley Shades Of Blue, CGC. Dam is Spiritwind Ain't No Angel. They are picture at 1 wk old (Born June 9th).

I am pretty sure we have 4 smooths (2 blue boys, 1 tri boy, 1 tri girl) and 1 rough tri boy. Once they are a bit older and up on their feet I'll get individual pics of them.... but anyway.. here they are at 1 wk old.


Smooth Blue Boy 1


Tri smooth girl and blue smooth boy 2


A group picture - dinner time!!!... again... lol


Smooth Tri boy - I think he is absolutely beautiful!!! When I am looking at the litter and watching them nurse or just watching them sleep my eye always goes to him!...


One more group picture

The blue boys together!!...






Cute little sleeping babies....

they are so beautiful,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it has made me want another puppy,

Thanks!! I think they are pretty cute myself.... can just sit and watch them for hours! LOL

nice puppies you have, a question you are saying you have 4 smooths and 1 rough. How this can happen?

giodis wrote:nice puppies you have, a question you are saying you have 4 smooths and 1 rough. How this can happen?

Thanks giodis!

Yes.. I know for sure I have 1 smooth tri female, 1 smooth tri male and 1 rough tri male. I am 99% sure both blue merles are smooths..

In North America roughs and smooths are considered the same breed, just different varieties and so they are very frequently bred together. The sire of this litter is a smooth blue merle champion, and the dam is a rough tri-color.

The sire is this boy..

"Ben" - CH Apple Valley Shades Of Blue, CGC -- his sire is also a smooth and his dam is a rough, which means Ben is what is known as a rough factored smooth. Which means he's a smooth dog that geneticly carries the rough gene... since the rough gene is recessive and the smooth gene is dominate. So Ben has 1 dominate smooth gene (which makes him a smooth) and carries 1 recessive rough gene... Since smooth is dominate if the dog gets 1 smooth gene from one of its parents, it will be a smooth...

The mother of the litter is a rough tricolor...

Spiritwind Ain't No Angel - her sire is a smooth (rough factored) as well.. and her dam is a rough... her sire since he is rough factored passed on the recessive rough gene he carries (instead of the dominate smooth gene he also carries) and since rough is recessive, to be a rough coat you need 2 recessive rough genes.. her mother is a rough so she carries 2 rough genes so all she could pass on is a rough gene... Kelsey got a rough gene from both parents = so she is a rough.

So since Ben is a rough factored smooth... and Kelsey is a rough coat... we got rough and smooth puppies... 4 of them recieved the smooth gene from their sire, so they are smooths (but rough factored since their mother is a rough) and the other puppy got a rough gene from both parents and so he is a rough... I had another rough tri male in this litter as well, but sadly we lost him last week.

Also... if you breed two Rough Factored Smooths together you can get rough and smooth puppies in the same litter....

Roughs and smooths have been bred together in North America since the very beginning, since Collies were first imported and bred in America, almost all pedigrees have rough to smooth breedings in them if you go back far enough.

I hope this makes sense....

Spiritwind, it's really interesting! I have never heard about this with collies, only with chinese crested dogs. I'm interesting in this, I'll try to read more about this, I hope there are some informations in Hungarian, too.

Blanca wrote:Spiritwind, it's really interesting! I have never heard about this with collies, only with chinese crested dogs. I'm interesting in this, I'll try to read more about this, I hope there are some informations in Hungarian, too.

Hi Blanca,

Yes.. I think coat genetics is very interesting... be it for coat color or just coat type. You might be able to find some information about it in Hungarian, I'm not sure. It seems as though (and I could be wrong) that North America is the only place that considers both roughs and smooths to be the same breed, and so are bred together??? is that correct?? if not... what other countries allow it? Just curious.

I posted a link in the "Breed Standards" part of this forum the other day...

Collie Breed History and Photos of Past Collies

Its an interesting website... with a lot of pictures of some of the great collies from the late 1800s and early 1900's.

To the left, part way down the page is a picture of CH Christopher. Below the picture is says:


"Ch Christopher" born 1887, was exported to
the U.S. after being bred extensively in Britain.
All Collies today trace back to this dog."

Beside the photo is some text that states:

"A point of interest here is that the mother of Ch Christopher's great grandsire, Scott, was a Smooth Collie by the name of "Ch Waite". She was the very first Smooth Collie champion, and thru Ch. Christopher, is an ancestor of all Collies today. Thus there exist no Rough Collie lines in which Smooth Collies do not appear."

I thought this was interesting since so many other places around the world consider them two seperate breeds... but its in their history that roughs and smooths were bred together.. and in North America they have been bred together since the beginning, since they were first imported into this country from Europe.

Congratulation!!!
Colour blue-merle remarkable!!!!
Success vashchim to puppies in the future!

Just thought I'd Post pics of the grandparents of the puppies above... so you can see the rough x smooth breedings another generations back...

First, the sire of my litter (Pictured Above) - CH Apple Valley Shades Of Blue - Ben....

Ben's sire is: CH Capella's Midnight Blues, ROM - "Memphis"



Memphis was ranked as one of the top 10 smooths in the US several years in a row, he easily achived his ROM title (to get a ROM dogs much produce 20 or more champions, bitches 7 or more champions).... had several AOMs (Award of Merrit) wins at the Collie National specialty shows.. and he won the stud dog class at the collie club of america national specialty show in 1999.

Ben's dam is:

Apple Valley Abigail


Pedigree with picture links to other rough and smooth dogs Ben's pedigree

Kelsey, the dam of my litter, who is a rough tricolor.... her sire is:

CH HawkEire Flyin Without Wings:


and Kelsey's dam is:

Tomelle's Painted Angel, OFA

Spiritwind82 wrote:

The sire is this boy..

Wow! I love him very much!!!

Thanks Dusty!! I'm hoping his kids get his beautiful head qualities, with the head detail he has! plus his sweet eye and expression!!

Janna